Interview with Molly House Designer Jo Kelly

I recently played Molly House. The new board game from Wehrlegig Games from designer Jo Kelly. It got me right in the feels. I was left feeling quite raw after my game. It made me think things and feel things I have never felt or thought of before after playing a board game. Not even close.

To explain, the game is based around the Molly Houses of eighteenth-century London. Don't know what Molly Houses are? They were the places where homosexual men and gender non-conforming individuals could gather for social interaction, away from the glaring eyes of the outraged public and the brutal judgment of the law. Acts of this nature were a hanging offense at the time!

The game is a fascinating blend of roll-and-move, set-collection, semi-cooperation, and hand-management. The aim is to "host" multiple festivities, where you work with the other players around the table to create "joy," the term for points in the game. But if the wrong people turn up to your parties, i.e., the police, things could turn sour quickly! In my game, we were perhaps a little too reckless and allowed for too many bad things to happen, and we lost, with a round to go. You can control this somewhat. We were just a little over-excited and didn't pay enough attention to this part of the game. So, the game ended prematurely. And it ended with all players, ALL players, being hung. That's how it ended. A game about hosting parties ended with our characters all being killed.

I will just let that sink in for a bit.

It really threw me. So much so, I had a lot of questions. So, I reached out to the designer of the game, and thankfully, they were very happy and willing to help me process my experience and understand better what they had in mind as a designer for this game. It helped me out a lot. So, I post here for you all to have access too.

I highly recommend that anyone interested in this period of history, or the rights of humans, check out this game. I think it's important.

WBG - Thanks for talking to us. I must ask, what was your original inspiration for designing a game with this theme and historical setting?

Jo - The game was conceived in response to the announcement of the Zenobia Award at the end of 2020. They were looking for designers who were underrepresented in the historical games space, and that prompted me to work on a game that tied in with my own identity, and how it intersects with my own country's history. I initially learned about molly houses because of a piece named Molly-House, composed by Michael Finnissy, who was my composition tutor in the final year of my music degree. I fell down a rabbit hole of research, and came back out with an idea for how it could be turned into a board game.

The design of the game is quite deliberately old fashioned, with some gorgeous touches. Tell me, why was that important to you? 

Quite honestly, that was more Cole's doing than my own! [Co-designer Cole Wehrle] The game has been through many iterations, a lot of which were made during Wehrlegig's development process. The addition of playing cards and roll-and-move does a lot to ground the game in its period of history, while remaining evocative of the story I set out to tell. I love how the festivity card game gets all players invested in something that feels like a party, with all its highs, lows and pettiness, and the dice movement creates this idea of evading danger by cutting you off from visiting certain sites.

The components and overall design are also incredibly premium. Is this a thematic choice, or because you just like nice things yourself!?

This was also mostly down to Wehrlegig, although having seen the production of Pax Pamir and John Company, it was certainly part of the decision to work with them! I knew they would create a beautiful game, and they gave me a lot of freedom in directing the art. I was so grateful to be able to include so many scenes on the cards inspired by real snippets of history.

OK, into the crunchy bits. The theme. This is a sad part of human history where for whatever reason, people refused to let people be who they wanted to be. Some may want to forget that. You decide to make a game about it. Why do you think this part of history is important?

It's important because it's not over. The 'line go up' version of the history of the queer civil rights movement is far from the truth. There is evidence of comparatively progressive attitudes to what we may now think of as a trans identity in the records on Princess Seraphina, for example. The actions of the Society for the Reformation of Manners were the actions of a small fringe group, who seemed to be fairly unpopular among the general public at the time. There's a clear parallel in the so-called Gender Critical movement of our time, whose influence far outweighs their popularity, and whose actions are just as deadly as the death sentences passed upon the mollies of the 18th century. We must never forget this history, and never become complacent in a belief that our troubles are over or that things are only getting better, because our rights must be fought for, over and over again.

I see. OK, I did not think of it that way. Thank you for saying that. That helps me understand this a lot better. Back to the game experience, the way it can end can be quite dramatic, and incredibly sad for the players. I know that's how I felt. It was very abrupt, with final rounds left unplayed. I asked my friend who I played with, "I wonder why they decided to let this be an option?" And he replied, "Because that was how it was back then." Is this how you see it? Did you want to keep things realistic and true to the times? Not sugar coat the sad facts. 

It was important to me to create an honest recreation of the history, and part of that was the oppression of this community. I hope that some games of Molly House will leave players feeling sad, in the same way I sometimes hope to leave the cinema or finish a book feeling sad. The history is filled with joy, love, tragedy, betrayal, sex, and gender play, and I think the game gives room to explore all of that.

I have never seen board game sin the way. And I should. Thank you. Some of the language may be quite shocking, even offensive to some players. One card for instance suggest that you sodomise a police officer without their consent, but I assume with the underlying message that of course they did consent. But they are hiding their true desires. Am I right? If so, do you worry some may not understand some of the card text?

I actually included a note in the rules for this very reason. This is not the modern conception of 'assault'. Any form of supposedly 'unnatural' sex was considered assault by both participants, regardless of whether they were consenting.

OK, that is an important definition. Thank you. I enjoyed my time with your game, but also left feeling sad and dejected. Humans can be terrible. I was hung for nothing more than being who I was in the game. Of course I knew this was an option before. And I knew this is how life was back then, and of course is still like now in parts of the world. But, I would love to hear your take on this, and your hopes for people as they play, win or lose. How do you want people to feel, and what do you want people to take for themselves when they play your game?

What I really want is for people to reflect on how all of this is relevant today. Like all historical games, it is as much about the modern day as it is about the historical period. The far right is gaining traction all over the world, and it is already rolling back the rights of queer and trans people here in the UK, in the US, and it is showing no signs of stopping. I don't want people to come away from the game just thinking 'wow, things were bad back then'. Things are bad right now, and they're on track to get much worse.

Thank you so much for talking to us, Jpo. That was incredibly insightful, interesting, shocking, humbling, but important. I am glad I had the chance to talk to you about this, and I hope others can gain something from reading this conversation. Thank you for what you have done with this game. I am excited to see what else you develop in the future. I know from other interviews you are not done with historical games. I am very pleased to hear that!